Ugh. In the grand scheme of intense angry blog fights that seem omnipresent in certain circles and make it damn hard to forget that it’s only about .000005 percent of the US population who has any indication that this is going on, — we’ve got quite a doozy on our hands.
Here is the summary, from what I can gather: A woman named Cheryl Lindsey Seelhoff, age 55, (who also goes by the name “Heart”) started a blog and forum called Women’s Space. Heart does seem a bit, uh, odd – she’s running for presidency on the “Free Soil” ticket, for one thing. And she’s that kind of old-school-hippie-feminist who kind of makes you cringe a bit because dear-god-no-wonder-people-get-such-misconceptions-about-feminism-when-you-have-people-like-her-running-around. Still, off-kilter or not, she seems intelligent, as well as harmless and well intentioned, and her Women’s Space community obviously fills a need for like-minded souls, and that’s fine. Great. Good for them.
Except ….
A woman named Biting Beaver – the kind of person that also makes me cringe because she refers to women as “womyn” and such — wrote a post on one of Heart’s forums about how she was very upset to find her teenage son looking at porn on the Internet, and sometimes she wishes she would have aborted him. What we can see here is a woman who is clearly (if not a parody) somewhat mentally and emotionally disturbed. A few commenters make some disturbing comments as well.
And that’s that, right?
Well … no. I don’t know where the attacks began, but somewhere in the dark nether-regions of those-people-who-give-Internet-geeks-a-bad-name, someone coordinated an “attack” on Heart’s Web site, presumably to teach her a lesson for having positions they don’t agree with and allowing other people to post in her forums with positions they don’t agree with (the horror!). They sent enough traffic to her site to shut it down, and they filled the comments section with frightening remarks such as this:
Heart, this is horrible. I’m sorry that this is happening to you. These people want nothing to do but to hurt you and your cause. I feel for you. In fact, I want to feel you now. I’d like to tie you down, take a knife, and slit your throat. I’d penetrate you over and over in all orifices, and create some of my own to stick myself in.
Begging the question of Um, really? Really? Who is more nuts in this situation????? One emotionally disturbed woman makes a post on a site run and frequented by a group of slightly kooky individuals, and they are met with a coordinated Internet attack and hundreds and hundreds of threats containing truly disturbing and graphic descriptions of violence? Who is more nuts, a woman who says she wishes she’d had an abortion or a person who says they’d like to slit someone’s throats and penetrate all their orifices?
Of course, people are chiming in now and trying to say that the words of Biting Beaver and a few of her supporters at that site constitute proof that ALL FEMINIST BLOGGERS ARE MURDEROUS MAN-HATING HARPIES. For instance, the comments at Riehl World View read mostly like this:
At any rate, the batshit behavior exhibited by Biting Beaver is considered nowadays to be normal and protected by the feminist groups who share similar conditions. Meanwhile, legions of young men held in the crossfire of these womyn’s rage and anger will grow to be mentally and emotionally dysfunctional creatures who will either self-terminate themselves or be removed from society after fulfilling the very prophecies embedded into them by the very womyn who raised them.
And God help us all if they stumble upon Islam as a way to reclaim the manhood stripped of them by these womyn. If there is ever a growing trend for disaffected males to turn to the Religion of Peace in lieu of a patriarchal figure, the feminists will be responsible for condemning their fellow womynfolk to a religion which views them in the same regard that the womyn viewed the “evil rapist” men. Just notice how Islamic cultures don’t have the “rabid feminist” problem. And there is a very good reason for that.
And again, I ask you, what is loonier? Some old-school-hippie-feminists still using the term “womyn” (which is something they harp on in a good majority of the comments there), or someone who believes that “rabid feminists” are going to lead to Islamic jihad committed by America’s own children?
[I love this, though. Riehl asks in the post’s title, “Are some radical feminists child abusers?” to which Jill replies “Uh, yeah, probably. Lots of different kinds of people are child abusers -- being an asshole certainly crosses ideological lines.”]
A Web site called Encyclopedia Dramatica has a round-up of the whole thing, although I warn you, this place is like the dark unkempt labyrinth of hatred, hysteria and lameness. It seems to be an entire wiki documenting Internet memes and flame wars while simultaneously spewing insults at women, gays and liberals, with links upon links that take you to more and more weird wiki entries, like the 7th Circle of Wingnut Internet Hell.
Update: According to Shakespeare’s Sister, a lot of the original “quotes” from Biting Beaver that provoked such outrage and such weren’t even real quotes, but from a parody site. (Edit 2 — which, as someone in the comments points out, may or may not be true).
Good summary of what’s going on, though “well-intentioned” isn’t an adjective I’d used to describe Ms. Heart. The Shakespeare Sister contention that its all just a forgery is pure bullshit and denial. The original post to the Margins discussion board is Google cached:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:3Hb2Y2I79ZgJ:www.womensspace.org/Feminist_Motherhood/182.html+http://www.womensspace.org/Feminist_Motherhood/182.html&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1
I’ve seen two cases now where somebody who has direct hotlinked to the Margins has suffered either a DoS attack or at least trolling. My advice to bloggers like yourself is to not make any direct hotlinks to the Margins or any of the other targeted sites (until this thing blows over), and probably not to Encyclopedia Dramatica or 4chan(dot)org either. (Text URLs are probably OK.) “Anonymous” is following links upstream looking for a challenge.
well, anonymous can step to me if he wants.
Though “well-intentioned” isn’t an adjective I’d used to describe Ms. Heart.
Eh, she seemed like an okay sort in the few posts I read, but I really only skimmed her most recent posts briefly.
As for the Shakespeare’s Sis business … that’s where I’m confused. I don’t exactly know why they are saying it was fake? Although, the fact that it’s up there in Google cache form I guess doesn’t exactly disprove their contention, since I think what they were saying was not that the quotes in question didn’t exist, but that they weren’t actually written by whoever the “real” Biting Beaver is, but some person only purporting to be her. In which case, I don’t really think they can fault Riehl and the others for not knowing that this wasn’t a real posting. How were they supposed to know that if none of the people who have some knowledge of those sites and such can really figure out what was real or not?
I guess the thing is, though, that whether or not Biting Beaver and her quotes and all that are real or not is largely irrelevant, don’t you think? Everyone agrees that the comments — real or not — were pretty heinous, but that this nonetheless did not justify the vitriol with which a lot of people attacked any site remotely related to BB or feminist bloggers in general.
“oldmancoyote22
well, anonymous can step to me if he wants.”
Challenge accepted.
“A Web site called Encyclopedia Dramatica has a round-up of the whole thing, although I warn you, this place is like the dark unkempt labyrinth of hatred, hysteria and lameness. It seems to be an entire wiki documenting Internet memes and flame wars while simultaneously spewing insults at women, gays and liberals, with links upon links that take you to more and more weird wiki entries, like the 7th Circle of Wingnut Internet Hell.”
Thank you for your kind words. We like to call it ‘home’ though.
oldmancoyote22, you have no idea what you just got yourself into
“As for the Shakespeare’s Sis business … that’s where I’m confused. I don’t exactly know why they are saying it was fake?”
It was not fake. Some folks over at Shake’s Sis could simply not believe that a ‘womyn’ had said such a thing. Because all women are innocent and all men are evil. So it had to have been a man who was posing as a ‘womyn’.
Oh, please…
Look, you may accuse us of being hackers, criminals, chaotic neutrals, lulzseekers, pornlovers, anarchists. We are all that. But we’re no liars.
It was not fake.
i’m still waiting for something worthwhile to respond to, anonymous.
do you get paid for each posted comment, by the word, or are you operating on a flat fee?
I was there the day raids started. I saw the comments in question. I saw that everywomyn supported them or at least didn’t object to them.
As for ED, they go off on EVERYBODY. Get offended easy? GTFO then.
Go back to the kitchen.
ED,
Sorry about that. Some Anonymous have no manners.
I see you call us a “Gaggle of Violent Misogynist Loons”. That is unfair, because we’re not violent at all. So please refer to us as “A Gaggle of Computer Hacking Misogynist Loons” from now on.
That’s a description that should cover about 95% of us. The other 5% are girls.
Hey oldmancoyote22.
“i’m still waiting for something worthwhile to respond to, anonymous.
do you get paid for each posted comment, by the word, or are you operating on a flat fee?”
Congratulations. That was a response.
well, i suppose iamcuriousblue is right about one thing. you are looking for a fight.
i am simply curious though what you think is worth fighting about on this thread.
on one side you’ve got a silly comment by a self-described feminist on a public forum set up to discuss women’s issues.
and on the other side you’ve got this angry anti-feminist contingent who have posted disturbingly violent responses to that post.
elyzabethe’s point is that one did not justify the other. she also made pains to distance herself from biting beaver and her comments. she described them as the product of someone who was “mentally and emotionally disturbed.” but, she explained, the idea that biting beaver deserved to receive rape and death threats is even more disturbing.
this is not about being “offended.” if i called you a moron, that might offend you. if i threatened to ass rape and kill you, that’s not merely offensive. that’s illegal.
the truth is, anonymous, the people who responded to biting beaver need her. they need to hold her up and other women like her in order to justify the dark and degrading fantasy world they claim as reality. a world where a vast man-hating feminist conspiracy plots to cut off their dicks and humiliate them. a world where they can be gladiators, soldiers, guardians of manhood, and relevant.
and of course, there’s a flip-side too. there are women out there who fervently believe in a vast woman-hating conspiracy that plots to turn women into sexual slaves and domestic servants. and the only way to fight back is to degrade and humiliate men the way they believe men are trying to degrade and humiliate women.
but don’t get me wrong. there’s a lot more history and reality on the side of the latter’s view of the world than in the former. the two are not morally equivalent.
so maybe some men get confused by the type of woman who feels the need to humiliate men and the vast majority of women who recognize that we aren’t too far removed from a time when women were thought of as chattel.
i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. i’ll assume you can see the difference. this is a web-site which attempts to employ rational and practical thinking to various issues of the day, including women’s issues. no one who posts here believe that men are irrelevant or need to be degraded or humiliated. in fact, at least two of the contributors here are men.
so i’m still curious what you think is worth fighting about. you seem to take the gladiator approach to commenting. like you’re a bad mofo and people better watch out and don’t cross you, blah blah blah. “Get offended easy? GTFO then.” only the strong survive? is that it?
give me a break, man. it’d be a little more compelling if (a) you started actually discussing something instead of posturing with little farts of courage and (b) you had the guts to put your name (even a psuedonym would be preferable!) by your words.
i would guess that you’re either a troll paid by someone to rile up liberal or feminist blogs and write ridiculous things. or you’re fourteen years old and feel oddly liberated by the “power” to write doo doo and get away with it.
either way, it’s a little bit sad.
As IACB says, Seelhoff’s not all that harmless, although her most digusting characteristic, the trans-hatred, isn’t exactly something the ED people are really moved by, I don’t guess.
Ignore the previous newfag comments. Internet tough guys who think Anonymous is their personal army. The collective of Anonymous will see that this is a failure of a target. Trolling logical people is rarely ever fun. If you’d like to get targeted, do something interesting.
At least the story has a happy ending. BB’s blog is now invite only so is now subject to internet quarantine. Although it’s still possible to read selected posts that google cached.
Moral of the story : don’t post that you wish you’d aborted your son because he looked at porn on the internet.
You never know who might be reading.
Good job being part of the internet hate machine, elyzabethe. The only thing worse than participating in internet wars is SPREADING THEM.
The war’s already over.
I hardly think I was spreading anything by posting once about it on my own low-low-traffic blog. just commenting, really. i was bored at work yesterday.
let’s be fair, elyzabethe. you ordered the code red.
I SOOOO did not.
Thanks for putting out the small flames, though. ;-)
And, p.s., if you read the newfag comment again, I think Anonymous No. 15 was calling the other anon commenters newfags, not you. For the record.
yeah, it took a drunk oldmancoyote to read that correctly. go figure.
Wait, what?
oldmancoyote, you completely misunderstand us. We’re not waging war. We’re not radical anti-feminists, though feminists do make tons of funny drama. We’re bored, and messing with people like this is surprisingly entertaining. The only time we will attack someone out of anger or similar motives is when someone directly mocks or attacks us. Your remark about us not agreeing with allowing people like this to share their opinions on a forum is completely wrong. Without people like this having blogs dedicated to their own stupidity, the internet would be a very boring place. Personally, I wish more people like this would share their thoughts.
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/ \
/ ___ \
| / \ |
| | | |
/ | | \
\__/ \__/
sake
is that spiney thing
A longcat is fine too!
The whole “anonymous is a single codified group of hackers and delinquents” idea is getting reeeeeeeeeeeeaaaalllllly old.
They are anonymous, they have no identity. It could be literally anyone or ANY group. There is no one “anonymous” group.
The “group” most often associated with anonymity is 4chan, and they only fuck with people who fuck with cats. And scientologists.
I am sure you will love dvd to mov and get big save dvd to mov with confident